tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 26, 2013 1:00am-2:01am PDT
tamerlan tsarnaev. a state police spokesman saying because of that, neither they nor other state agencies were ever in a position to help evaluate, for example, the relevance of this trip to russia last year. the fbi, however, says massachusetts authority had full access to the terror database the older suspect was on. we'll have more on this tonight, kind of try to sort it all out. also tonight, was new york city next or was another bombing planned for here in the boston area instead? top officials weighing in on both sides. there seems to be competing narratives on this, starting this afternoon with this press conference. >> last night we were informed by the fbi that the surviving attacker revealed that new york city was next on their list of targets. he told the fbi, apparently, that he and his brother had intended to drive to new york and designate additional explosives in times square. >> now, the younger suspect reportedly said that in a second round of questioning by
interrogators, not to party as he first reportedly said, but to use their remaining explosives where they'd do the most carnage. that is one view, shared also by police commissioner ray kelly at that same press conference. that said, the other view comes also from someone in a position who you would assume knows things, house intelligence committee chairman republican mike rogers. listen. >> what we know happened is we believe they had intention for another attack. they had built the devices and not used them. but from the investigators i've been talking to, they believe it was more likely going to be in the boston area. they needed to generate some cash. the hijacking, the theft of the atm cards and that kind of thing, the robbery, all of that was designed to get them ready, we believe at this point, to go to new york. it's not clear to me that they were actually going to set those devices off, even though they had them with them. so, it certainly would make it a plausible thing to have happen, but it's more plausible to me that they were going to do another event in the boston area
and they were hiding out in new york city was their plan. >> chairman rogers also said that there are "persons of interest that we are very concerned about," and that's using the present tense. whether that means here or in russia where the suspects have roots, he would not definitively say. he suggested, though, that some of the focus would be here in the boston area where the two suspects live. however, when asked point blank whether these persons of interest, these alleged persons of interest, are either here or in russia, he turned the conversation toward the greater need for cooperation from russia. also tonight in russia, late word that the suspect's father has been taken to the hospital. he was supposed to travel here either today or tomorrow, but again, that came from the family and they, frankly, their statements have been all over the place. there's been a lot of contradictory statements from those family members. the mother, meantime, called a news conference, called it all a setup, says her sons didn't do it. should point out factually, though, she actually hasn't seen her sons in about at least a year. she hasn't lived here. we're going to dig deeper on the
russian angle tonight on the boston or the new york question as well, whether the surviving suspect was read his miranda rights prematurely. jeff toobin and mark geragos weigh in on that. they have strong ponz that. later, sanjay gupta looks at what life is like for all those who have lost limbs in this bombing, the fresh steps they are going to have to take as they try to walk again, and in the case of one dance instructor who we've been profiling, dance again. another very full night. with us, nick payton-walsh, who is in the russian region of dagestan tonight. former massachusetts homeland security adviser juliette kayyem, currently a "boston globe" journalist, joining me here. and on the phone, national security adviser fran townsend. juliette what do you make of this "boston globe" report that boston anti-terror squads were not informed about what the fbi knew about tamerlan tsarnaev? >> right. so, what you're hearing is they were informed in the sense that they had access to the database, but they were not specifically told, look, there's someone on
your streets that we have particular concern with. this is troubling because it sort of is consistent with the feeling that the fbi never thought much of this guy, right? that the original investigation did not show much. and it also, there's a lot of history in this city about the relationship between the fbi, the boston police and state and local officials. we saw a lot of sort of harmony during the last week. >> right. >> and what you're starting to hear now is, wait, why weren't we told? this is our city. this is what state and local sharing was supposed to cure. >> and that's where these leaks, it seems like, are coming from, people who are annoyed locally or at the state level or the federal level, and that's why they're kind of sending out this information. but it seems like at the very least, a phone call to local terror officials would be not only a courtesy but a sensible movement. >> right. and so what we don't know is how many of these did the fbi get in boston? so, the jgtf is sort of co-located, like 20 agencies that sort of sit together, so there's lots of situations that aren't documented. people will say, no, we did talk
about it, but the truth is, if they weren't specifically told, hey, there's a guy here living down the street in cambridge and we did this investigation and didn't find anything, but we thought you should know that cuts against some of what was learned after 9/11, that state and locals who we saw are the first responders. >> right. >> it's the police here, it's the state police were sort of maybe the last to know. >> that is certainly troubling. fran, the fbi told the "boston globe" that state and local governments have their own representatives who have access to federal terrorism databases. juliette was just talking about the jjtf, the joint terrorism task force. >> it's true, but as we've talked about before, there are hundreds of thousands of names in that database you're talking about, and there are new names added, there is stale information in there that's been in there for some period of time. and so, that's why you talk about cutting a lead, directing local officials in the joint terrorism task force that you're sitting with to look a particular name or a particular
case when it's been added or because there's been a particular inquiry from a foreign government, even if you've closed the case. and so, it really isn't enough to say, well, you were sitting in front of this computer and you had access to a list with, you know, hundreds of thousands of names on it. you know, you could have found it yourself. that's not really what the whole regional intelligence-sharing and fusion centers were meant to be about. and the whole point of the joint terrorism task force is to work cooperatively against joint targets in your geographic location. >> right. >> and so, access to the database really isn't enough. >> right. i mean, juliette, why wouldn't an fbi official, you know, say, if they're on this joint terrorism task force, walk down the hall to the local state representative and say, by the way, we interviewed this person who lives in boston, just a heads-up? >> right. that was what should happen and that was the creation, as fran described, of the fusion centers and the joint terrorism task force. there's a whole architecture created after 9/11 because of the lessons learned, and in particular, state and locals
were really outside of the intelligence loop. so, depending how this particular story that the "globe" is reporting unfolds, it is dismaying for this city to learn, wait, there was an entity that knew that he was on some list. >> right. it's also troubling this kind of drip and drab of information that seems to be leaking out from state entities, federal and local. why doesn't somebody with the information just put it all out there? >> so, it would be helpful. i think each agency is trying to figure out what they did, and so before that becomes a sort of one against the other, which is both unbecoming and unhelpful to learn any less gronz this, you know, whether the director of national intelligence or some entity that can say, look, everyone, let's figure out what this story line is, the accurate story line. >> right. >> so that we can, as i've often been saying, we can learn from it. >> okay, right. >> we can't go back, but we can at least learn from it what were the errors. >> let's talk about the whole question of were more actions planned here in the boston area, as mike rogers has indicated from people he's talked to in law enforcement, or was new york
the target? you pointed out in our 8:00 hour that they're not mutually exclusive. >> right. >> that perhaps previously they had extra devices that they had planned to utilize to set off in the boston area, if, in fact, these two suspects are guilty, but in sort of a last minute, in the chaos of it all, they needed to get out of town, they were like, well, we'll go to new york. >> right, exactly. so, that's consistent with what the boston police clearly felt, which is, why are they still here? that's the question i was asked and justifies the shutdown. that was i think very scary for them, and so they might have been planning something else. the fact that they carjacked the car, asked for his atm, wanted to get the money and seemed not to have an exit strategy suggests that they were going to do more here, and who knows what their long-term plan was? they then panic because they're identified, they go on this spree, and the fact that they wanted to get down to new york might be just some wild escape plan that they thought could work. >> right. >> they clearly had more weaponry, and that's what, you know, the fact that they were trying to get on a road to new york must be scary to new york. >> right.
nick, you're in dagestan. we're also learning new details about the mother being placed on a cia watch list. what do you know about that? and also, are the russians cooperating with u.s. officials? >> it's a good point you make. we don't know much details about why that happened. you would think that would have to be because of some connected link, some common contact that both zubeidat and her sons had in russia or in the states. we know cording to the mother, she headed towards a devout muslim path about the same time tamerlan did when their family friend, misha, came into their lives, made them feel ashamed to have not been devout enough in their muslim lives, too. on the topic of russian cooperation, i should point out, unfashionable to defend the kremlin at times, but there appears to be two or three occasions where the russians went to the americans with warnings, with concerns about the tsarnaev family.
interviews happened and then there seems to be a built of a standoff here, a diplomatic spat brewing, where effectively, we've always seen the russians say we're dealing with global terrorism here in this part of the world. that's always considered to be exaggerated by many u.s. officials who seem to have a separatist chechen movement here now, entering into extremism, and then you have the old cold war standoff, where both sides still mistrust from about 20, 30 years ago, and that often feeds into the conversation. but at this point, there's no reason i think to suggest that the russians are hiding something, but of course, both sides now run the risk of giving the other side information which gives their opponent, potentially, the ability to blame the other for holding something back. anderson? >> that was the other comment made by chairman mike rogers, that the russians are not cooperating as much as the u.s. would like. fran, nick, appreciate it. juliette's going to stick around because we want to talk about other potential influences on the suspects. and later tonight, i really hope you stick around for this.
you're going to meet a first responder, a firefighter, a par mettic from the lynn fire department here in boston. received his medical training just in time on the day of the bombing to save a young girl's life. >> i don't know if it was just tunnel vision or fate or whatever it was, but i just looked and focused and i just saw this one child in the middle of the street just sitting there with this dazed, shocked look.
there's a lot of breaking news tonight, a lot of new information coming into us. the chairman of the house intelligence committee casting doubt on the notion that times square was the alleged marathon bombers' next target. he also suggested there are more persons of interest in the case. now, we don't have an answer to that, i just want to be clear on that. we do know that authorities arrested two people in the area last friday. they've questioned a 20-year-old who tweeted with the younger suspect. cnn has learned that at least five fbi agents talked to him over the weekend. drew griffin has more now about him and two others who were arrested last friday and actually remain in custody. drew, what do we know? >> and this really speaks to the nature of the exhaustive search that's going on by the fbi to find out if there is anybody else involved. there was a high school classmate of dzhokhar tsarnaev who tweeted him about fireworks back in march.
we found those tweets. we looked at them. i think you can see some of them on the screen right now, specifically talking about blowing off some fireworks. well, it was last sunday that five fbi agents came to a neighborhood in chelsea, tracked down this high school friend of dzhokhar, according to his father, and questioned him all about these tweets. we talked to the father. he said the fbi agents were very thorough, trying to find out everything they could about these specific tweets. we know his college friends have been questioned, high school friends have been questioned, anybody who had any contact with him. >> right. and in all this, there are these two other people. i believe they were originally from kazakhstan? >> that is correct. >> they are still in custody. >> russian-speaking, foreign students who were at umass -- >> amherst, or dartmouth, excuse me. >> it's been a long week. they were arrested, actually taken into custody last friday in what looked to be a heavy-handed fbi raid. remember, this is before
dzhokhar tsarnaev was captured. now we know why this was such a heavy-handed raid of an apartment building down there. the fbi really believed dzhokhar was in that apartment. the reason is, is because he shared an actual cell phone with dzhokhar. >> okay, right. >> they shared the same telephone and they were following that phone, so they believed the signal was coming from there, it must have been there. >> i remember our chris lawrence was actually on the campus on that friday and reported on seeing the black hawk helicopter ending and tactical units getting out. that's what that was about. >> that's what it was all about. local police had no idea the fbi was even coming. >> interesting. >> it was a surprise raid, very heavy-handed. those two students are now being held by immigration service on a visa violation. it's odd that they'd be held this long. we are told that's out of the abundance of caution, that so far, there is nothing connecting these two fellas to what happened here on marathon day, but they are still being held and their backgrounds and all their communications still being gone over. >> fascinating. drew, appreciate it.
i want to dig deeper now into the influences on the older and the younger suspect, how they may have become radicalized, particularly the older brother. who, if anyone, might have helped along the way here or back in russia? our other breaking news, by the way, their mother has now been added, apparently to a federal terror database. juliette kayyem is back with me here in boston and former cia officer bob bear is also joining me. bob, you say the more you hear about this case, the more you do not think the suspects acted alone. you say authorities are clearly looking for accomplices both here and overseas, right? >> i think absolutely, anderson. you know, i'm still on this kick about the explosives and the devices and i've called everybody i know who makes these things, who put them together, and everybody says to an expert that somebody showed them how to do it. you have an ex-boxer, and basically a dopehead, the young kid. you know, young. they don't go out and teach themselves this. you know, if you work in a radio store, yes, you could.
if you're that sort of geek, yeah, you can put it all together using cell phones or toys or the rest of it, but i don't see these two kids what i know about them, doing it. i think the trip, of course, like everybody else, he went there, and the chances of him making contact with this if he's pretty good. i spent years investigating the madrid train bombers and the rest of it, and they all seem to come back to, as we've been using the word, a charismatic guide who will sit down in the mosque with them and explain them the real islam. i know you can get on the internet, you can read this stuff and you can take orders from the internet all you want, but young men like this are looking for guidance. this jihad mentality, globalist mentality. and i think this is the best explanation. i also think it's the reason the fbi is seriously looking for accomplices. you know, they've been sending
people to dagestan, they've been making raids, they've been -- >> but bob -- >> go ahead. >> in your opinion, though, it doesn't necessarily mean that somebody kind of directed them to do this particular bombing. it could be, in your opinion, just somebody who gave the older brother instruction in how to make the devices, and then they sort of came up with their own plan. i mean, is that your thinking? >> yeah, i think that's the most logical hypothesis. go back to the united states, kill as many people as you can. the two brothers think boston marathon, times square, doesn't really matter. you know what they don't want is to be connected by cell phone to foreign cell groups, they don't want money transfers and they don't want orders coming from overseas, because it's all interce intercepted, so they just say go kill as many people as you can. and this is why this discussion about hitting new york or other targets in boston seem very fluid to us. it doesn't sound very military. but in that world of trying to
hide what they're doing, it makes sense. >> juliette, unless there is cooperation from russian authorities and unless russian authorities were actively monitoring tamerlan tsarnaev when he was over there for six months, it's very possible we may never be able to actually piece together that full six-month timeline of what he was doing. >> right. there might be a lot of unanswered questions or they might be unanswered for a while. these investigations take a long, long time. so, here's where i think we are now, that everyone, like bob, everyone knows that those six months were relevant. what we don't know is, was it, you know, just a time period in which he became a radical, more disenfranchised, more disaffected, then came back here and planned an attack? or was he working with others who helped him figure out how to do the attack, some jihadist group, some international group, and then came here and did it on his own? both are scary, there's no question both are scary, but they have different solutions. if there's an international flavor to it, if there's a
foreign terrorist organization, it's going to require working with the russians, you know, the cia will be involved, diplomatic efforts. if it's domestic, right, if it is two guys who essentially, i mean, grew up here. they grew up in my town in cambridge, that's a very different feel for the citizens here and the citizens of america. so, how did they become so disaffected? how did they learn to do this? were there moments in their life where authorities, others could have stepped in -- >> there are different national security implications if it was something -- >> right, and that's why you're hearing -- you know, the story is unfolding in realtime, so i'm i think waiting it out between those two story lines, but that's exactly right. because if you find out it's a foreign terrorist organization, all sorts of other issues come into play in terms of what tools we can use to stop it. >> and bob, i find it interesting in the reading i've started to do on this sort of radicalization of others who have gone on to commit terrorist activity is how family dynamics do play a role in this, whether it's some sort of precipitating
event that starts somebody on a path toward rejecting their parents and kind of moving, even rejecting the mosque that they go into and kind of go to a more extreme form of whatever their religion is that they're pursuing. >> anderson, i interviewed a young kid that went to his mother to seek permission to blow himself up in london, and she took fright and went to the police, and it stopped it, but that's the kind of dynamic we're dealing with is parental approval or influence. yes, you're right. >> interesting. bob baer, appreciate it. juliette kayyem, thank you very much. coming up, the chairman, as i mentioned, the chairman of the house intelligence committee says that dzhokhar tsarnaev stopped answering questions once he was read his miranda rights. we're going to get into what that may mean with jeff toobin, our senior legal analyst, also defense attorney mark geragos. they've got very strong opinions on this. also ahead, i'll speak with one of the heroes, an off-duty firefighter and paramedic who helped save a 7-year-old's life on that terrible day pf
well, the chairman of the house intelligence committee has sent a letter to attorney general eric holder asking for more information about the timing of zarqatime ing of dzhokhar tsarnaev's first court appearance that happened by his bedside. federal agents have been questioning him before reading his miranda rights, the exception to the rule when authorities think there's an imminent public safety threat. on "the situation room" with wolf blitzer, representative mike rogers says he's concerned with why that process was stopped and he wants more information. listen. >> he's arrested friday night. the magistrate, the judge intervenes into what is a legal activity, the interview that was deemed so by a u.s. court
decision, and that is the public safety exception to mirandizing. so, you have to think about it. he's going through, he's obviously seriously wounded he's losing a lot of blood, he has to get the medical attention, as early on in that weekend the judge calls out and says i'm going to show up for this particular event. that is highly unusual. >> so, the question is what could this mean for the case against the suspect? joining me now is cnn senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin, also criminal defense attorney mark geragos. jeffrey, what do you make of congressman rogers suggesting that tsarnaev, that he received his miranda rights too soon? should mirandizing him been held off for more questioning? >> you know, anderson, we have one legal system in this country, and it was a good enough legal system to convict timothy mcveigh and charles manson and zac moussaoui zacari
moussaoui. they think they have to create an exception just for him and it's absurd. he was questioned to see if there is imminent threat to anyone in the world right now and then given his miranda rights. that's normal, that's appropriate and there's no reason to think it should have been done any other way. >> but jeff, the congressman is suggesting that since he was mirandized, he has not cooperated with authorities. if that is in fact the case, the most important information he gave was before he was mirandized. none of that is admissible in court, correct? >> well, not necessarily. i mean, under the public safety exception, the court will weigh whether that statement was voluntary, and that's a complex inquiry and i don't know how it will turn out. but yes, it may be true that he stopped cooperating after he got his miranda rights, but you know what? this is the united states of america. we don't force people to talk if they don't want to talk. they have certain constitutional rights. he's an american citizen, he was
arrested within the united states, and if he doesn't want to talk, we're not going to waterboard him, we're not going to torture him, we're just going to prove our case some other way, and there certainly seems to be an abundance of evidence to prove the case that this guy is guilty. so, i don't see what the problem is here. >> mark, as a defense attorney, what do you make of -- i mean, it's got to be an uphill battle for these public defenders who are assigned to tsarnaev's case. how would you even go about defending someone like this with all the apparent physical evidence, i mean, the photographic evidence and the like? >> look, i've got to echo first what jeff just said. this is -- the idea that this congressman is on the intelligence committee and displaying such a lack of intelligence is mind-boggling. this is an american citizen on american soil committing crimes allegedly against other americans. you know, take a look at thegua.
they haven't exactly been spectacular for the prosecution in the results they've had. and take a look at the district court and the results they get, where people go away forever or get the death penalty and it's very quick. you get appointed a public defender. and as you just said, anderson, this seems like an uphill battle. yes, because they have a mountain of evidence. now, what is the miranda rights and what is reading the miranda rights really mean? it means that if you don't do it, then what is said may or may not be admissible. well, they don't need that. they don't need to convict him. and i will tell you something else, the lawyer who represents him, and mind you, it's going to be a public defender -- the public defender is going to try and save his life. this is going to be a mitigation-style case. this isn't going to be somebody -- unless this is richard jewell redux, who is saying i'm the wrong guy. and the way they're going to do that is they're going to try and trade information so that they take death penalty off of the
table. that's what's going to happen. this kid is 19. there are some mitigating factors. was he under the influence of his brother? by the way, as an armenian, i do want to comment that all this speculation about when recent convert named misha, which by the way is not an armenian name, is insulting to armenians everywhere, who, by the way, is the first christian nation. so, rather than have some uncle on who passes for somebody who knows what he's talking about, who hasn't seen this guy in three years, i think we should be a little bit more critical of some of the information that's being passed around as gospel at this point. >> right, and wolf actually in interview with the uncle did come out that that uncle has not seen these kids -- or kids, these adults, these young men, as you said in two to three years. >> in two to three years. >> so, how he knows -- >> right. and all of a sudden, he's all of a sudden insulting armenians everywhere as if there's some armenian convert to muslim. i mean, remember, the armenia
armenians -- and this week, the armenians celebrated the commemoration of the genocide, where 1.5 christian armenians were wiped out by muslim outman turks. so, the idea that there's some convert from christianity to muslim who's doing this who doesn't even have an armenian name is ludicrous to begin with. somebody needs to give this uncle a field sobriety test, because i think this guy was under the influence of something. >> misha is a nickname for michaele, which is russian for michael. the prosecution, dhoenz even need a confession in this case. they don't even need to prove intent, do they? >> well, not -- there are so many ways that they can prove guilt here that we have spent so much time, understandably, talking about miranda and whether his statements can be used against him, but it may be simply irrelevant. the prosecution may simply decide we don't need to litigate whether this statement was admissible.
>> exactly! >> look at the evidence in this case. you know, look at the photographs from the scene. look at how he behaved afterward. look at his apparent confession to the driver of the car they hijacked. >> that was carjacked, exactly. >> they have all this evidence that is completely admissible, without any question. so, you know, yes, it was understandable that given that this was a terrorist act, they wanted to find out immediately if there was something more, but once they found out there was nothing more, there was no reason to continue the interrogation. >> okay. i've got to go. we're way over top. mark geragos, appreciate you being on, jeff toobin as well. ahead, you'll immediate a paramedic from the lynn fire department who is just a remarkable guy. he saved the life of a 7-year-old girl who's badly injured. could have easily died in the wake of the bombing. matt patterson is his name. he only recently got his paramedic certification. he was in the right place at a bad time and he knew exactly what to do. >> i get up, i run back to the sidewalk. there happens to be a gentleman
standing there, just couldn't tell you who he was, a random spectator. i need your belt, i need your belt. without hesitation, this man ripped off his belt, gave it to me. i took the belt, ran back over, applied a tourniquet. to double-check the temperature on the thermometer, be ready. for high fever, nothing works faster or lasts longer. be ready with children's motrin.
understandable that we've been focusing on them, but we never want to lose sight on the most important people in that happened here, the victims who are now trying to rebuild their lives, the families who have lost loved ones and those who ran to help them on that awful day, the first responders, the runners who took off their shirts to make tourniquets. today i talked to another one of those heroes, a firefighter/paramedic. matt patterson was off duty the day of the attack, out with his girlfriend having a drink, but when the bombs went off, he knew exactly what to do. he was in a bar. he ran into the street. he saw a child. he had later learned it was this little girl in the picture, 7-year-old jane richard. at the time, he didn't know who she was. her brother, 8-year-old martin, standing in front of his father there, died from his injuries. wh when matt reached jane, he saw most of her left leg was gone above the knee. he knew he had to act quickly to save her life. so, it's really the second blast when you realized -- >> second blast, yeah, that took all the doubts out of my mind. you know, i immediately started
running towards the front, yelling for people to get back, get to the kitchen, get away from the windows, you know, not pushing people back, but at the same time, i was making it known that i was going forward and they were going the other way. i get out to the patio, and i don't know if it was just tunnel vision or fate or whatever it was, but i just looked and focused and i just saw this one child in the middle of the street just sitting there with this dazed, shocked look, even from where i was. i could just tell this child was hurt. >> you could see her face. >> i could, yeah, you could just tell. like i said, that's why, i don't know if it was tunnel vision or what, i zoomed it in. call it training or intuition or whatever. something was horribly wrong. >> because it's pandemonium, people running around. >> it is. it's hard to explain, but it is pandemonium, but once you get something in your mind and once you focus on it, like that's the task at hand. i don't know if it's training or if it's just the fact that i was distracted by just this one child, but it had my full attention. >> so, you ran over to this little girl. >> i ran over to this little girl, who initially i thought
was a boy. i knelt down, i expressed you know, hi, i'm matt, i'm here to help you. i'm a paramedic. i was like, you're going to be all right, you're going to be okay. >> so, she was with her father. >> her father and older brother. i asked her name and the reply i thought i got was shane. turns out it was jane. but like i said, the answer was irrelevant. the fact that she could speak told me that she was conscious and alert to at least what was going on. she just looked in a state of shock. she just had this emotion, this look, and just, you know, i only remember her saying once or twice that, you know, her leg hurt. >> was she crying? >> no. nope. no crying. she looked me straight in the face and answered the question. you know, what's your name? and it turned out to be jane, but shane. and you can imagine with the chaos and the noise, shane, jane, it was -- >> so, what did you do first? >> well, so, when she spoke, i realized she was good, i looked down and realized she had a full
left leg amputation. so, i get up, run back to the sidewalk. there happens to be a gentleman standing there. i couldn't tell you who he was, random spectator. i need your belt, i need your belt. without hesitation, this man ripped off his belt, gave it to me. i took the belt, ran back over, applied a tourniquet. started looking left, started looking right, i knew we had to get this child moving, like she was in serious condition and nothing was going to save her life at this point besides surgery. >> it was critical to get the tourniquet on to stop the bleeding. >> yes, the tourniquet was crucial. she would have bled out without it. >> how quickly can they bleed out? >> a child that size, it varies with the injuries and if the wound quarterizes or if it's an artery, but 30 seconds to a minute, probably, for a child that fast. >> that fast. >> yeah. >> so you get the belt and ran back. >> the tourniquet was applied. another guy, michael chase, ran up to me, asked what i could do. i said listen, we have to move this kid. this child needs transportation and medical help, like real medical help, like a doctor.
i heard the familiar sound of sirens, which was good, looked up and down boylston street and i saw two fire engines and a medic truck coming towards us. immediately scooped up the child, told michael, no matter what, don't let go of the tourniquet. then we ran in unison down the street, i guess with the father and the son following. didn't notice michael ended up staying and talking to them afterwards to calm them down. >> so you're running holding jane and michael -- >> michael is running with me holding the tourniquet on, just to keep it cinched down, because it's a belt. it's not designed for that kind of pressure and tension. so, yeah, he had to run with me hp piz job was to hold the tourniquet and i was just supporting her weight while he held that down. so i mean it was crucial. like, without him or i, it wouldn't have worked. it couldn't have been done with one person. like, you can't. both of us had to be there at that time and able to do what we did. ran back to the scene. i get upon another child who i noticed that cpr's in progress. i don't know who's doing it, but
i noticed cpr was being done. i get up to the child, notice it was a boy, couldn't have been more than 8 or 10 years old, small child, severe injuries as well, lower extremities and abdominal. so, i moved my way to the head. at this time, there is some medical personnel on scene, so there's a first in bag, which is an emt basic bag, and i administered two breaths to the child, let the cpi go, two more breaths for the child, checked for a pulse. there was no pulse. i knew at that point that, you know, it's never a lost cause with a child or anything like that, but the situation depending and especially that situation with the amount of injured we have and the severity of the injuries that there was nothing that -- there was nothing more that we could do for this boy. >> and that was martin richard. >> that was martin richard. i was like, that's the boy we tried to save and ended up having to just, you know, triage and move on to someone else that could be saved. >> that was jane's brother. >> that was jane's brother, yeah. >> what's that like to, i mean,
you're with these people in the most horrible moment, in this intimate moment. and to not even know who they are and then to see on television the picture of this little boy when he was alive? >> during the event and the tragedy, you know, you don't really have a connection, and it's not personal. i don't mean to make it sound like we don't care, because we do, but it's a very -- >> you've got to be focused. >> it's a very methodical, this is what i have to do, this is what can be done, this is who can be saved. and you know, you have to assess each injury and each victim separately, and you know, without bias, and it's just purely based on what can i do to save this person's life or help, and can they be saved? >> have you been able to talk to the richard family? >> no. >> is that something ultimately you would like to do? >> ultimately, i would -- i mean, it's up to the family. i mean, the family has suffered more in a day than anybody should in a lifetime but you know, i'd like an update. i'd like to know that, you know, we did make a difference and it's one less person that they
didn't get and one less life that wasn't robbed. >> you saved a life. >> yeah, and that's ultimately what it's about. you know, you just happen to be in a really bad situation, but you were there, you were put there for a reason and you had the knowledge, and you know, the guts or whatever you want to call it, to run in there and make a difference. >> you just became a medic. >> i did. >> i'm very glad you became a medic. >> thank you. me, too! >> thank you. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. >> an honor. thanks. such an honor to meet him. really a remarkable guy and so many of the first responders just incredible. god bless them all. at least 14 bombing survivors have had amputations, including that little girl, jane richard, and they'll all have to learn to walk with prosthetic limbs. tonight, chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta reports on what that journey is like. he spent time at the kessler institute for rehabilitation in new jersey. here's his report. >> reporter: it takes time, about six weeks post-surgery for a new amputee to take this first
step. one of the most important things is that this wound around the amputation has to heal up completely, this incision line that you see over here. and after that is done, they actually have to shape the remaining area of the leg and then actually put something on to sort of shrink those tissues so that the prosthetic can go on. every patient that suffers an amputation goes through tailored therapy to learn how to use their new limb. peter kulick, who lost his legedu to complications from diabetes, has had his prosthetic leg less than two weeks. the signs of progress can be small sometimes, but look, no hands. he was using one hand earlier, two hands before that. let me show you something else. if you come around, take a look. when you actually look specifically at what's happening with the speed over here, he's stepping up with his good leg over here, but look what's happening with the prosthetic. you get the sort of expected, what you want, the heel-to-toe
sort of rock. that doesn't come naturally. that's something pete really has to practice. surprisingly, everyday tasks, like making coffee, it's part of therapy as well. he's not holding on to anything right now. he's actually able to keep his balance all on his own. he's trusting his leg, distracted, he's not thinking about that and he's got a lot of balance that he's successfully testing by actually moving around the kitchen here. so, he's never done this before. i mean, and take a look. it's an uneven surface. he's got to essentially bend his knees. it's a lot harder than it looks for somebody who has a brand-new prosthetic device. pretty good, pete! the first month of therapy is all about the basics for lower limb amputees. taking those first steps to learn to live independently. some people say, look, this is going to be sort of a new normal for these patients, but you say it's actually more of just normal. >> once they look back on this
situation, you know, a year from now, two years from now, you know, yes, this will be a nightmare, and yes, there is a loss that is permanent, but they have every reason to expect that they're going to be able to go on and live the same happy, satisfied lives. >> reporter: in fact, thanks to advanced prosthetic technology, most amputees go on to not only live a normal life, but to push themselves even beyond previous expectations. >> the future is really much brighter than they could probably imagine at this point in time, but i think for the people in boston, they'll have that experience. >> reporter: dr. sanjay gupta, cnn, reporting. >> we wish them all well. i also just want to take a few moments just to thank all the folks, the good folks who work at the westin copley hotel, which has sort of been our home base since these bombings. it's a terrific hotel and they've done a really nice job in just making our jobs that much easier. so, we're really deeply
appreciative for all their efforts. coming up tonight, stopping the next attack by building a better bomb-sniffing dog. >> announcer: you never know when, but thieves can steal your identity and turn your life upside down. >> hi. >> hi. you know, i can save you 15% today if you open up a charge card account with us. >> you just read my mind. >> announcer: just one little piece of information and they can open bogus accounts, stealing your credit, your money and ruining your reputation. that's why you need lifelock to relentlessly protect what matters most... [beeping...] helping stop crooks before your identity is attacked.
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a trail, a trail of vapors in the air that smelled like a bomb. vapors that only a specially trained dog could detect. >> stay. stay. stay. >> reporter: a dog like these now being trained at auburn university. researchers here call them vapor wake dogs. the point of a vapor wake dog is to detect the vapor of the bomb, if you will, before it's actually placed somewhere where it might explode, catch it before that. >> that is exactly correct. your standard bomb dog, your explosive detector dog is primed on looking at an object, a backpack that's placed somewhere. a vapor wake dog's ability is to detect the odor coming off of that backpack on the back of someone as they carry it. >> reporter: amazing. >> and to follow that plume of vapor. >> reporter: auburn university professor jim floyd says vapor wake dogs are the ultimate
bomb-sniffing dog. they can follow a plume or bomb vapor stretching several football fields, a skill so unique, the university hopes to patent it. this video from the university shows a vapor wake dog in action. once he catches the odor in the air, he never lets up. we did our own experiment at this alabama mall with the help of auburn's canine handlers. they give the man in the red shirt a nknappsack loaded with explosives inside a pressure cooker, just like the bombers in boston. watch as the dog catches a whiff. and just like he's trained to do, when the suspect stops, the dog stops, too, then sits down, alerting his handler to the bad guy. in a crowded mall or on a city street, this technique is crucial. these dogs can potentially stop a would be bomber before it's too late. you think that if you had a
vapor wake dog in boston, they might have detected the suspects before they were able to place those backpacks down? >> had one of our dogs been in place on that corner with those two guys walking there with those backpacks, i think they would have alerted on them. >> their training starts early, even as early as these puppies, which are just about three weeks old. at this time, they're held a lot and socialized, and then by the time their formal training starts, when they're about a year old, they're used to people and loud noises, and they don't get spooked so easily. auburn has its own breeding program for bomb-sniffing dogs. they rarely use shepherds and traditional breeds but lean more on labradors and spaniels. paul hamm beyoond, whose compan working with auburn to train and deploy vapor wake dogs explains why. >> we need a dog that fits into the public profile, that the
public's going to walk past and ignore, as if it was a domestic pet. >> reporter: auburn's bomb dogs are being used in airports, on trains and by police departments, too. what is it about a dog's nose as compared to ours that they are able to pick up something like that? >> well, the dog's system is actually 220 million scent cells, compared to a human's 5 million scent cells, so that sort of gives you a real comparison. you know, so, where we might be able to smell a woman's perfume walking by, the dog will not only smell the perfume, but the clothes, the material she's wearing, the shower gel that she washed with that morning. >> reporter: in addition to vapor wake training, these dogs are also able to detect explosives in the traditional way. paul shows us by hiding explosives in the tire well of this car. >> good job! that a buddy! >> it is a game to a dog, you know? if a dog thought he was looking for explosives, he probably wouldn't do it. >> reporter: what may be a game to these dogs could mean the difference between life and death to the rest of us.
weeks now, having the privilege of seeing the strength of the people here, the determination to not be defined by this attack, they are exactly right. they will finish the race. there is no doubt about that. that does it for us. thanks for watching. "early start" begins now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com a chilling revelation from the surviving boston bombing suspect. new york city's busy times square was supposed to be their next terror target. plus, the reluctant hero who helped turn the tide and maybe even saved lives. new details on how a carjacking victim's split-second decision foiled the bombing suspects' escape. and a long wait at the airport could finally be over. new this morning, congress putting an end to furloughs in air traffic control towers. there's some good news for you. good morning. welcome to "early start." glad you're with us this morning. i'm zoraida sambolin in new york. >> and i'm john b